I often hear excuses (they call them “reasons”) why we shouldn’t or can’t homeschool. Excuses like these:
- * Some parents aren’t equipped to teach. They’re not smart enough.
* In some families, both parents must work and can’t homeschool.
* Homeschooled children aren’t well socialized.
* As Christians, our children should be witnesses to the children in public schools.
I’ve heard and read some great arguments against these weak excuses. But…as strong or weak as these arguments are, they would mean NOTHING if the command to homeshool were explicit. If God blatantly commanded Christian parents to homeshool children (maybe creating the 11th commandment) there would be no list of excuses as to why not. But, again, because it is an implicit command, the list continues to grow and propagate throughout the Christian community. Bottom line – these excuses are based in complacency.
And, are you positive that it is not an explicit command?
God specifically commands parents to give their children a distinctly Christian education:
“And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.” (Deuteronomy 6:6-7)
Who shall teach them? YOU!!!
Note the explicit “You shall teach” statement. It can not be delegated to someone else any more than the “you shall” statement 2 verses earlier can be delegated to someone else. God says, “You shall love the Lord your God”, and you cannot delegate the “you shall” to someone else. Likewise, God says, “you shall teach . . . your children”, and you cannot delegate the “you shall” to someone else in this case either. . . . surely this distinctly Christian education cannot be delegated to a pagan public school system!
Also, note the numerous time-oriented statements in this verse:
“when you rise up” = first thing in the morning
“when you lie down” = last thing in the evening
“when you sit in your house”, “when you walk by the way” = the entire day in-between
It is apparent that Deuteronomy 6 leaves no room for your child to be shipped off for 8 hours a day to be educated by someone else. In other words, it looks pretty explicit to me.
Hi Dave! It was great to connect with you again. Let’s talk on the phone soon!
In your response you asked, “…does this ‘explicit’ command mean that I can’t give my kids a Christian education…?”
Absolutely not! In fact, my argument is that you *must* give your kids a Christian education. I applaud you and Anita for teaching your children Biblical principles and being unwilling to give that away to anyone.
Actually, I do not send my son to Sunday school. In our church we do not segregate the Body of Christ according to age. We all worship together. No Sunday school, no children’s church, no youth group and no nursery. *GASP*
Furthermore, I’m not advocating that no one but Christa or I teach Landon. I’m advocating that no one who is wicked or ungodly teach my son. Does that mean every teacher in a public school is wicked or ungodly? No way! There are many fine Christian teachers in the public school system. But who would know it? The wicked ungodly system won’t let them talk about it or teach biblical principles.
See my newest post titled “Psalm 1″.
Hi Dave!
Good question . . . you are having thoughts that are similar to many Christian parents. In a nutshell, the reasoning goes like this:
A) The Bible commands me to teach my children to be godly.
B) I DO teach them to be godly.
C) Therefore, if they also spend part of their day at the godless public school, that is OK.
But that thinking is unbiblical and illogical for a number of reasons:
1) Deuteronomy 6:7 commands you to teach your children to be godly . . . 100% of their waking hours, not 50%. It is not enough for you to just teach them godly principles after they get home from school at 4:00 in the afternoon. Scripture says to teach them from “when you rise up”, until “when you lie down”. That leaves ZERO time for the godless public school system.
2) Psalm 1 explicitly teaches us that a person is blessed for not walking in the “counsel of the ungodly”. Thus, a person is *cursed* if he *does* walk in the counsel of the ungodly. Regardless of what you teach your child in the evening after school is over, do you want your child to be *cursed* for 7 hours a day, while he is at school under the counsel of the ungodly? Do you want 35+ hours a week of your child’s life to be cursed?
3) Just imagine that it was a private Islamic school, instead of a government public school. Would you use the same argument? Would you say, “They may be indoctrinating my child with Muslim beliefs for 7 hours a day, but that’s OK because I teach my kid godly principles when he gets home”? Of course not! As a Christian, you intuitively KNOW it is harmful to have your child sit under the counsel in a school which explicitly holds to a wicked religion.
So it is with the government public schools. They intentionally exclude Jesus from every corner of every class, for 7+ hours per day. If that is not a wicked, godless institution, then what is?
Why would you want your child to be shaped and molded in the godless public school system for 7 hours a day, 180 days a year, for 13 years? Why would you render your children to Ceasar for over 11,000 hours of their childhood?
So does this “explicit” command mean that I can’t give my kids a Christian education even if I send them to school for “8 hours” (it’s nowhere near that amount of time by the way)?
I DO teach my children Biblical principles…I would never give that away to anyone.
Do you send your kids to Sunday School? If so…is that YOU teaching them or someone else??
You know me…never met a controversy I didn’t like. =0)
-David B
What about being salt and light? What about being a witness to those in public education? And, are they all godless people? What about Christians that teach in public school? What about a Christian school superintendent?
Your absolute statements leave little room for grace and mercy for those that disagree with your interpretations of Scripture.
Hello Dave,
Good connecting with you again. I hope things are going well with you in Michigan. Thanks for your comments!
First of all, my response to the “salt and light” argument against homeschooling has already been addressed in a previous post.
See it here: http://itsthesimplelife.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/homeschooling/ Scroll down under the heading “Education and the Great Commission”.
Second, I do not believe that all teachers in the public school are godless by any means. There are plenty of Christian teachers, coaches, superintendents and janitors, for that matter, who are working for the public school system. But while they are on the clock, they are agents of the state. They are not allowed to talk about the Lord. They are not allowed to teach about the Bible. They are not allowed to give God the glory in everything they teach. These fine people may be Christians, but who would know it?
My point is, God commands parents to teach their children – not the state. God commands that children are taught about Him – not taught an atheistic religion perpetuated in our public school system.
I have just as much grace for people who disagree with the Bible on this command as I do with those who disagree with any other command in the Bible.
~ Jeremy
Dave,
You said, “What about being salt and light?”
Well, would you send your child to a private Muslim school so she could be “salt and light” to witness to those Islamic teachers and students? Of course not!
You said, “What about being a witness to those in public education?”
Do you think the best way to witness to the world is to be different from the world, or to be just like the world? If you want to be a good witness for Christ, then homeschool your children like Scripture commands, and then invite the public schoolers over to your home for dinner. Then you can witness to them.
You said, “Your absolute statements leave little room for grace and mercy for those that disagree with your interpretations of Scripture.”
How much grace and mercy would you offer to someone who sends their children to a private Muslim school? How much grace and mercy would you offer to someone who breaks the 7th commandment? Grace is for sinners who repent, not for unrepentant ones.
Joseph,
If I am reading this correctly you are saying that if a person goes to public school they are just like the world? Does this mean that there is no way for a Christian to be a witness in public schools?
What would you offer a person that sends their child to a private Muslim School?
What would you offer a person that breaks the 7th commandment?
Hello Dave,
Before Joseph responds to any more questions, I’d encourage you to answer some of his – and mine as well. Both he and I have given some arguments backed with scripture references, but you have yet to even answer or respond to them or give any scripture references to defend your position. By the way, what is your position? We don’t even know that?
It is difficult to want to continue with a monologue. As with any civil debate, since this is what it is turning out to be, and also since you said to me in another venue that you enjoy this type of conversation between Christian brothers, it is imperative that both sides clearly state their position as well as respond to each other’s assertions.
So, please (and this goes for the other Dave as well) state your position and defend it with scripture.
Thanks,
Jeremy
Thanks Jeremey for your thoughts.
If I felt that God called me to send my child to a Muslim school I would. I would do it based on the Great Commission as well as Acts 1.8. If I were to live in a muslim country, I may have no choice except to attend a Muslim school. The disciples were called to go to all of the world, that is pagan culture also. Paul, in Acts 17, discusses the Unknown god with those at Mars Hill. He also quotes from their poets and philosophers. The pagan cultures were witnessed to and transformed by the disciples. Paul was a Jews, Jew and sought to reform Judaism with his teachings. Jesus was not called to the Gentiles but to the lost sheep of Israel.
If they had ascribed to some of your thinking they would have told the new converts to homeschool their children, but they did not. Several places in Scripture talk about Jesus teaching in the Synagogues. He did not isolate himself from them, but engaged them and sought to teach them in the ways of Christ.
For the first five years of my daughters public education, I volunteered in her classes two half days a week. I did not speak about Jesus, but lived Jesus. In that time I developed a relationship with many teachers and administrators. The knew I was a Christian, they knew I was a preacher. I have, to this day, access to all schools and administrators. We consider each other friends. I speak at public events, including a baccalaureate services that while a church service it is held in the public school auditorium.
I could go on about this, but suffice it to say I have not cheapened my witness with sameness. I was salt and light in these places because of the life I lived and the life that is lived through me. I do not find isolation the way of Jesus, we are called to go into all the world.
Regarding how much grace I would extend an adulterer or a person that sent their child to a Muslim private school, I would extend as much grace to them as has been extended to me. Matthew 18.23-35.
I have gone to support meetings with people guilty of sexual sin. I have served communion to people ostracized by the local churches. I am constantly reminded that Christ died for us while we were still sinners (Romans 5.8) and offer the same love, grace and mercy I was afforded to those deemed wicked and sinful.
Regarding the comments about being agents of the state: How do we redeem godless structures and entities if we are being isolationist in our attitude? I know, there is a Reformation website that addresses the issue of isolation. I don’t buy it. If we are to be witnesses to all the world, we must be in their with them. Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were all in service to King Nebuchadnezzar. The Jews were under Roman rule in the time of Jesus. And the discussion was not easily settled in that time either.
We cannot call Caesar Lord, we cannot bow down and worship false gods, but the biblical witness points toward living in those times and working. Some have commented that the practice of the Nicolaitans (referenced in Rev 2.6) is the practice of burning incense in an act of emperor worship and thus allowing them to buy and trade. They did this because they knew Caesar was not a god and that their belief in Christ was solid (I stated this poorly. My apologies).
For centuries Christians have not been in power and have been subject to the state in many ways. They have not been free to worship and yet they did. they have been persecuted and dispossed of their livelihoods and belongings. They have lost their jobs and sometimes families, but they have continued to worship and serve God.
Perhaps the worst of all of this is the persecution of Christians toward Christians. We have battled over theological issues and have imprisoned and tortured one another because of doctrinal differences. I recognize that I am already at a loss because I am Wesleyan/Arminian. Jacob Arminius was labled a heretic. By proxy I guess I am a heretic.
Dave,
God would never violate His Word in Scripture. Therefore, He would never tell you to send your child to a Muslim school.
Psalm 1 is clear. If you walk in the counsel of the ungodly, you are cursed. But if you walk *not* in the counsel of the ungodly, then you are blessed.
If you send your child to be educated in a godless institution, then you are sending her to be cursed, according to Psalm 1.
In Luke 6:40, Jesus does not say that a student will be salt and light to influence his teacher. Instead, Jesus says that a student will be like his teacher. In other words, the teacher will be the one to influence him. If you send your child to a school to learn from even one godless teacher, then you are putting your child in spiritual danger, according to Christ’s words in Luke 6:40.
You claim that you want your children to be salt and light, according to Matthew 5:13-14. But I don’t think you are thinking it through. First of all, Jesus does not command us to be salt and light. He simply says that we already *are* salt and light. As long as you are truly a Christian, that is what you are. Second, look at the warning Jesus gives in this passage. The danger is that we will “lose our saltiness”, and thus become worthy of being cast out. Did you know that 7 out of 10 Christian children sent to public school end up turning their backs on Jesus and leaving the Church? Why do you suppose Christian homeschoolers come nowhere near having this kind of problem? Third, I agree that Christians need to send missionaries, and be salt and light to the heathen. But are you therefore going to send your 12-year-old daughter out on her own to be a missionary to a pagan tribe in Africa? Certainly not! She would be eaten alive, either literally or figuratively. At the very least, she would be assimilated into their culture, and taught their pagan ways. At the very worst . . . well, I don’t want to go there.
Likewise, you do not send a 12-year-old girl to school to “witness” to a 40-year-old secular humanist teacher. That is just foolishness. According to Luke 6:40, that humanist teacher will influence your daughter, rather than the other way around.
Deuteronomy 6:7 is also clear. God explicitly commands you to give your child a godly education from the time she wakes up the morning, until the time she goes to sleep at night. Sending her to a godless institution for 7 hours a day is a direct violation of God’s commandment in Deut. 6:7.
If you are truly willing to send your children to a Muslim school, then as far as I know, you are the first Christian I have ever met who would be willing to do so (or willing to admit it). After reading the Scriptures above, I hope you have changed your mind. But if not, I really don’t know what else to say to you, except that I am praying for the spiritual welfare of your children. If you would sacrifice them to a wicked Muslim school, then what wouldn’t you do?
But if you agree that it would be wicked and foolish to send your little child to a Muslim school, then perhaps we are getting somewhere. After all, what significant difference is there between a godless Muslim school, and a godless government school?
Dave, are you basing your beliefs off of your feelings, or are you basing your beliefs off of the Scriptures?
in Christ,
Pastor Joseph M. Gleason
Thanks for the response Joseph.
“Dave, are you basing your beliefs off of your feelings, or are you basing your beliefs off of the Scriptures?”
Scriptures. Weird, ain’t it?
Thanks for praying for me. I will be praying for you, also.
Reverend David Gerber
Dave,
Yes, it is very “weird” that you would claim to be basing your beliefs off the Scriptures.
1) First of all, it is weird that you would say such a thing, and then fail to tell me what those Scriptures are.
2) Second, it is very weird that you would say such a thing, and then fail to respond to the NUMEROUS Scriptures which I quoted in my post above.
Regardless of your claims, one thing is very clear:
In the posts on this blog, I am the one pointing out the Scriptural basis for the education of our children. You are not.
I am still waiting for a reply to my previous post, which contains numerous proofs from Scripture.
in Christ,
Joseph
Hi Dave,
Thank you so much for stating your position so clearly. It gives me more of an idea of where you’re coming from. And I’ve realized, while you and I still disagree, we do not disagree as much as I thought. You make some excellent points.
Let me, first, cover my major point of contention and then I will address the areas of agreement or minor contention.
You said, “If I felt that God called me to send my child to a Muslim school I would.” I just can’t help but completely disagree with this. This is akin to saying, “If God called me to divorce my wife, I would”, or “If God called me to become a Muslim, I would.” God would *never* call you to do something that He has forbidden. I’m sorry, but this statement you made has some major flaws and I’d like to recommend that you go back and reconsider that point of view.
Now for the good points…
Scripturally you mention:
* The Great Commission
* Acts 1.8
* The disciples being called to go to all of the world
* Paul in Acts 17 at Mars Hill
* Pagan cultures transformed by the disciples
* Paul seeking to reform Judaism with his teachings
* Jesus called to the lost sheep of Israel
* Jesus teaching in they Synagogues
* Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in service to King Nebuchadnezzar
Personally you mention:
* Your volunteering in your daughter’s classes
* Your relationship with teachers & administrators
* Your access to schools and administrators
* Your speaking at public events
* Your participation in baccalaureate services
* Your being “salt and light” in the public arena
As I said, these are all excellent points. But I can’t help noticing that these are all examples of *adults* who are grounded in their Christian beliefs fulfilling Christ’s mandate to witness to the lost. None of these are examples of children witnessing – which is what the “salt and light” argument asserts is necessary.
Speaking of Christian teachers and administrators, etc, when I said, “These fine people may be Christians, but who would know it?” I wasn’t intending to say that I didn’t believe Christian adults shouldn’t be teachers or be “salt and light” in public schools. If that was implied, I do apologize. I was just stating that they’re not able to *teach* about God – which is true.
You said, “If [Jesus and the apostles] had ascribed to some of your thinking they would have told the new converts to homeschool their children, but they did not.” Well, I can’t agree with this statement for two reasons. (1) Since God told us explicitly in Deuteronomy 6, Psalm 1 and other places that the parents are to be the teachers, why would Jesus (and the other apostles) need to state it again? It’s already assumed. (2) At the time the events detailed in scripture were taking place, there was no public school. In fact, homeschooling was the *only* option. What reason would they have had to tell them to homeschool?
You said, “Regarding how much grace I would extend an adulterer or a person that sent their child to a Muslim private school, I would extend as much grace to them as has been extended to me (Matthew 18.23-35)…I am constantly reminded that Christ died for us while we were still sinners (Romans 5.8) and offer the same love, grace and mercy I was afforded to those deemed wicked and sinful.”
Amen! Dave you’re so right on with this statement! The only thing I would add to this is that there is a difference between extending grace to someone caught up in sin and condoning that same sin by ignoring it or allowing them to believe it wasn’t, in fact, a sin. As Christians, and also using the example of the prophets, of Jesus, and of the apostles, we must point out a person’s sins so that they become aware of them. Doing this with grace, with gentleness, and with love – while showing them the Truth from Scripture – is the only way they will see their sins and repent. That is the point of this blog – to show that God has spoken explicitly on this issue and we, as Christians, need to obey it. Period.
You asked, “How do we redeem godless structures and entities if we are being isolationist in our attitude?” To this, I wholeheartedly agree! I do not believe in being isolationist Christians. But I absolutely DO believe in protecting our priceless blessings (our children) by obeying Scripture and keeping them from Caesar until they’re old enough and fully trained to stand on their own in a godless arena. I am an isolationist when it comes to my son – and I can make no apologies for this. Especially since Scripture is so explicit in the command that Christians be this way.
You said, “For centuries Christians…have been subject to the state in many ways…but they have continued to worship and serve God. Perhaps the worst of all of this is the persecution of Christians toward Christians. We have battled over theological issues and have imprisoned and tortured one another because of doctrinal differences.” Yes, this is an unfortunate fact. Thankfully we can learn to still point out the speck in our brother’s eye while being gracious and loving. It doesn’t mean the speck is not there or that we ignore it. Not at all! It just means that there does not have to be persecution coupled with it. The point of this blog is to show the speck in the eyes of many Christians while continuing to extend the hand of brotherhood in grace.
You asserted, “I recognize that I am already at a loss because I am Wesleyan/Arminian. Jacob Arminius was labled a heretic. By proxy I guess I am a heretic.” I must say that I don’t know where this comment came from or how it even applies to this thread. While you and I may disagree over this particular subject – and we can debate it elsewhere if you like – I have never labeled you a heretic nor thought you to be one. I’m sorry if this has somehow come across to you. Please accept my heartfelt apologies. You are my brother in Christ and I love you and believe that we will be together in heaven.
Sola Christos,
Jeremy
Joseph,
Keep waiting. I am not going to continue this converstation. You win.
Dave
Jeremy,
Thank you so much for letting me be a part of this blog. Your answers are heartfelt and sincere.
Yes, I recognize your concerns about public education. You have your way of dealing with it, I have mine.
I pray that your ministry will be blessed and you will reach many for the kingdom.
Thanks again for your patience and willingness to talk with me.
Regarding the Weslyan/Arminian comment: I had not experienced it with you. That was baggage I carried into the conversation after dealing with others of the Reformed tradition. You have been kind and graceful.
Thanks again for taking the time. I will not be participating in this conversation any further. It is not edifying to my spirit. It is my choice and nothing you have done. Thanks again, brother!
May God richly bless you as you seek to know and do His will!
Your friend,
Dave